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Turned the Trak 2 on and routed deck to it. almost ready for digitisation :)

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diablo wrote:Or maybe I'm not being cynical enough? :confused: :(


I'd say it's a combination of both.

On the thread you linked, the user couldn't work out the Dolby function without dealer assistance :roll:
Much of the newer machinere looks over complicated, the blame is undoubtedly down to market pressure. Denon probably led the way to the situation many find themselves in, there is no need for the plethora of features on amps these days

Simplicity and minimal components from source to speakers should be the name of the game, I'm still happy with my £0 purchase of a Marantz PM-35 - found in a skip. It needs eight capacitors replaced every five years or so but it's always a joy to spend two hours inside a loved one.

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Channel Hopper wrote:
diablo wrote:Or maybe I'm not being cynical enough? :confused: :(


I'd say it's a combination of both.

On the thread you linked, the user couldn't work out the Dolby function without dealer assistance :roll:
Much of the newer machinere looks over complicated, the blame is undoubtedly down to market pressure. Denon probably led the way to the situation many find themselves in, there is no need for the plethora of features on amps these days

Simplicity and minimal components from source to speakers should be the name of the game, I'm still happy with my £0 purchase of a Marantz PM-35 - found in a skip. It needs eight capacitors replaced every five years or so but it's always a joy to spend two hours inside a loved one.


Part of the attraction of the Pioneer was that it had all the fancy bits - DNLA server, every sort of Dolby etc. plus it had nine ampplified channels so I could have run the audio in two rooms from it.

Though I hate sending things off for repair too often, plus if the sound ain't good as well.

The one I've ordered has the minimum I need, 7 amps plus Dolby IIz for my front high speakers. Plus what is still supposed to be the best room equalisation available to non-professionals. :) Got expensive speakers and big sub going unused at the moment.

Anyway, we'll see how it turns out.

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You getting those Duran Duran and The Sweet LPs digitised yet ?

(for Ms Smeggy of course :))

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diablo wrote:You getting those Duran Duran and The Sweet LPs digitised yet ?

(for Ms Smeggy of course :))


LOL - have neither :) Mis Smeggy was an Adam and the Ant fan IIRC.

My collection is fairly diverse from Allman Bros, Lynard Skynard, two beatle swhite labums ( one serial numbered ), Santana, through to 70s 80s disco-soul-funk.

I've decided I've got too much on editing pics at the moment ( I want to try and finish my Olympic torch pics at laest before the olympics itself ends )

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Have you got round to a test digitisation in the last week,Smeggy ?
No, I thought not. :)

Eventually got my new Anthem on Saturday, after being promised it Friday - but they forgot to send. So I had to be around from 8 o'clock on each day, which doesn't suit my routine at all.

So I wired up the left right and centre speakers in the back room but after playing with the on-screen settings for an hour realised that the front right speaker wasn't working. So swapped over speakers cables between the three to check that all cables and speakers were working. Did a factory reset of the Anthem. Still not working.

Rang them up at ten this morning and the chap said he'd speak to someone in the tech dept and ring me back. No call by 4:40pm so I rang again and tech chap asked me to check wires, do reset etc. He than said I should wire up all the speakers, I expressed doubts as to what that would achieve but he is sending a van tomorrow (8am-5pm) to collect it. I've since tried it with five speakers connected - and as expected the centre, front left and both surrounds work fine, but no right.

I checked up the firm, Peter Tyson, on the interwebby before I ordered and saw only good reports but I'm not so sure about them. I hope he has actually ordered that van. Good job I don't have work to go to. :)

Off to pack it all up now. :(

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diablo wrote:Have you got round to a test digitisation in the last week,Smeggy ?
No, I thought not. :)


Nope. too busy editing pics. Won't take long to do one though. Keep reminding me :) - I'll upload a 320kb MP3 of the results



Eventually got my new Anthem on Saturday, after being promised it Friday - but they forgot to send. So I had to be around from 8 o'clock on each day, which doesn't suit my routine at all.

So I wired up the left right and centre speakers in the back room but after playing with the on-screen settings for an hour realised that the front right speaker wasn't working. So swapped over speakers cables between the three to check that all cables and speakers were working. Did a factory reset of the Anthem. Still not working.

Rang them up at ten this morning and the chap said he'd speak to someone in the tech dept and ring me back. No call by 4:40pm so I rang again and tech chap asked me to check wires, do reset etc. He than said I should wire up all the speakers, I expressed doubts as to what that would achieve but he is sending a van tomorrow (8am-5pm) to collect it. I've since tried it with five speakers connected - and as expected the centre, front left and both surrounds work fine, but no right.

I checked up the firm, Peter Tyson, on the interwebby before I ordered and saw only good reports but I'm not so sure about them. I hope he has actually ordered that van. Good job I don't have work to go to. :)

Off to pack it all up now. :(


Aww bummer. Hope you get it sorted. :thumb: :thumb:

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I'm not even going to ask about how the digitisation is going . . . .

They tested the AVR at Peter Tyson and rung me earlier. As I half expected it works for them - must be a dry joint in the front right speaker amp so I didn't really want it back to go wrong again. Anyway they are refunding the dosh. The four channels that worked actually sounded rather good. I'd assumed that all amps these days would sound much the same really - the graphs are all flat to 0.5 db etc. but this one sounded a bit 'warmer' than my Onkyo.

I'll get one from elsewhere, maybe even their next model up, will have a bigger transformer. Been without my cinema system for ages now. :(

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diablo wrote:I'm not even going to ask about how the digitisation is going . . . .

They tested the AVR at Peter Tyson and rung me earlier. As I half expected it works for them - must be a dry joint in the front right speaker amp so I didn't really want it back to go wrong again. Anyway they are refunding the dosh. The four channels that worked actually sounded rather good. I'd assumed that all amps these days would sound much the same really - the graphs are all flat to 0.5 db etc. but this one sounded a bit 'warmer' than my Onkyo.

I'll get one from elsewhere, maybe even their next model up, will have a bigger transformer. Been without my cinema system for ages now. :(


I've been snowed under editing images, but I will digitise some vinyl soon :)

Keep nagging me :)

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smeggypants wrote:
diablo wrote:I'm not even going to ask about how the digitisation is going . . . .

They tested the AVR at Peter Tyson and rung me earlier. As I half expected it works for them - must be a dry joint in the front right speaker amp so I didn't really want it back to go wrong again. Anyway they are refunding the dosh. The four channels that worked actually sounded rather good. I'd assumed that all amps these days would sound much the same really - the graphs are all flat to 0.5 db etc. but this one sounded a bit 'warmer' than my Onkyo.

I'll get one from elsewhere, maybe even their next model up, will have a bigger transformer. Been without my cinema system for ages now. :(


I've been snowed under editing images, but I will digitise some vinyl soon :)

Keep nagging me :)


I figure that you probably have a week's worth of torch stuff left to do so I'll try to remind you next Friday. :D

Just rung up the Home Cinema Centre in Edinbugh and happened to get the chap who knows all about Anthem AVRs. Said I was trying to decide between the 300 and 500 model and wondered if he could do anything on the price to temp me. Wha-hey - £250 off the 500 and free Saturday delivery. :yippee:

Sounds like a nice chap and dead keen on the Anthems - and I'm to ring him anytime with problems. :) Dealt with them before and they are pretty good.

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You might be a bout right on the torch pics :)

Good one on the 500 - You'll be glued ot the front door on saturday then? :)

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smeggypants wrote:Good one on the 500 - You'll be glued ot the front door on saturday then? :)


Melatonin and two alarm clocks for me tonight. :doh:

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Managed to drag myself out of bed at 8:26 this morning, at 8:27 a Citylink van appeared outside and by 8:28 the new amp was sitting in my hall. What timing eh?

I could have gone back to bed but wanted to check that all the channels worked - and they do. :) 7 x 100 real watts. The sound of it reminds me very strongly of my Quad II valve amps, very full mid-range.

The XTZs have never sounded so good. I'll have to pop the lid later to make sure they haven't somehow managed to squeeze 7 pairs of KT66 valves in there. :rofl: (The room would be 35C by now if they had)

Now to run the room correction software on my laptop - can it get better still ? :confused:

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diablo wrote:Managed to drag myself out of bed at 8:26 this morning, at 8:27 a Citylink van appeared outside and by 8:28 the new amp was sitting in my hall. What timing eh?

I could have gone back to bed but wanted to check that all the channels worked - and they do. :) 7 x 100 real watts. The sound of it reminds me very strongly of my Quad II valve amps, very full mid-range.

The XTZs have never sounded so good. I'll have to pop the lid later to make sure they haven't somehow managed to squeeze 7 pairs of KT66 valves in there. :rofl: (The room would be 35C by now if they had)

Now to run the room correction software on my laptop - can it get better still ? :confused:


Have you got a dedicated listening room?

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smeggypants wrote:Have you got a dedicated listening room?


I suppose I have really, it is the back lounge of my small semi - I don't really use it for anything else nowadays other than the projector + big screen in the square bay at the back, plus the sound system.

A few years ago when both the lounges got a fair bit of use I'd thought of using the bigger front bedroom for a cinema system - but I'd need to put some heating in there to make it usable in winter. :D

I ran the Anthem Room Correction software earlier and these are sample graphs -

Image

Red line is what the microphone (with individual calibration file) measured, blue line is what the system is aiming for and green line is what it thinks it can achieve.

They show one of my XTZ 99.26 Mk II speakers plus a home-made surround. I think I'll need to re-run the setup after I've made some changes (put the bungs in the back of the XTZs and remove the 2dB treble cut link). Plus place them slightly further out from the back and side walls. Not much I can do with the surrounds though. :):

I played one of my favourite bits of Wagner this afternoon at hoooge volume after I'd applied the initial ARC correction and it sounded stunning. Though maybe it can sound even better?

:yippee:

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.. and if you place the measurement mic in a slightly different position you'll get different results.

I'm not a huge fan of room correction software for the following reasons.... The anomalies of a listening room are time based and are a combination of resonances and phase cancellation from reflections. You can only treat this properly in the physical world of the room itself, using resonance absorbers ( bass traps ), reflection absorption panels,and in some cases ( mostly for bigger rooms than you get in the average house ) diffusion.

Software will use a combination of EQ and phase adjustments to try and correct, but this ONLY WORKS for one single position in the room, and no one clamps their head in a vice while listening.

Do some tests with the mic in slightly different positions and you'll see what I mean ( the test mic must have a flat freq response, are you confident it has? )

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smeggypants wrote:Do some tests with the mic in slightly different positions and you'll see what I mean ( the test mic must have a flat freq response, are you confident it has? )


I had a sort of room correction with the Onkyo 608 but it was very poor really, so I just did manual adjustments to the volume and the 7 point frequwncy compensation curve to make it sound better.

I was thinking of getting an Onkyo 818 to replace it, which has the much better Audyssey MultEQ XT32 system - but after reading thousands of posts in forums and all sorts of reviews it seemed that the ARC system, combined with supposedly better sounding amp circuits would be better.

No microphones have a flat response, as you probably know. But each microphone they supply is calibrated and has an equaliser file prepared for that one mike which comes on a supplied CD. I don't think any other maker of 'cheap' (which is all relative of course :) ) AVRs does anything similar.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1289533/anthe ... t_20398346

The software insists on at least five placements of the mike and does runs on each before calculating the suggested correction files on the computer (it takes a while to think about those as well) - then you upload the correction files to the Anthem and the processors in there do their stuff in real time.

Anyway, it sounds way better than the Onkyo. And while I know that nearfield monitors with inbuilt amps are very good for some purposes they ain't best for a home cinema system. :) They have to be a compromise with the room.

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the software can't correct for than one position at once :)

The problem with imperfect room acoustics is that they are time based which equalisation cannot compensate for. Even if you flatten the response there's still the smear to contend with. Which affects stereo image and detail.

You've got room resonances ( room modes ) which in an average room are mainly in the 50Hz to 200Hz region. Frequencies at this range are omnidirectional and will produce peaks and troughs in response corresponding to where the nodes and antinodes are.

And early reflections,which are produced by reflections form the wall boundaries which arrive at 20ms or less from the direct sound.

Absoroption os the key to damp both these problems. For resonances rockwool type absorption boxes ( cloth covered ) in room corners, for early reflections 4" thick absorption at the mirror points of the speakers.

When I say mirror points.... sit in the listening position and get a friend to move a mirror around all the surfaces of the room. when ever you can see a speaker in the mirror ten that's a mirror point. Sound above the resonant freqs of a room is directional and acts just like light waves.

In fact a good analogy is that if you imagine your speakers as light bulbs and the room surfaces covered in mirrors, then wherever you can see a reflection of the bulbs that is also a sound source. i.e you have a lot more virtual speakers in the room with reflective walls. Absorption at the mirror points avoids this

The thickness of the absorption determines the lowest frequency of absorption and so does the distance from the wall.

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Well no software can get better than giving a reasonably flat output from the speakers which direct to an area of the room - and you don't need your head in a clamp to appreciate that. You have seen the graphs which show the changes. I'll be running it several times later today with various changes.

I don't want to hang huge sacks of coconut shells (or whatever they are) from the ceiling or put diffusers on the walls really. This isn't Abbey Road studio, just an ever so 'umble back room. :)

Even in a concert hall you will hear most of the sound from reflections from the walls, so as long as it sounds pretty good then I'm happy. Maybe they should hold all concerts out of doors so they don't get any reflected sound ? Anyway I was pretty happy with the sound today. :D

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diablo wrote:Well no software can get better than giving a reasonably flat output from the speakers which direct to an area of the room - and you don't need your head in a clamp to appreciate that. You have seen the graphs which show the changes. I'll be running it several times later today with various changes.

I don't want to hang huge sacks of coconut shells (or whatever they are) from the ceiling or put diffusers on the walls really. This isn't Abbey Road studio, just an ever so 'umble back room. :)

Even in a concert hall you will hear most of the sound from reflections from the walls, so as long as it sounds pretty good then I'm happy. Maybe they should hold all concerts out of doors so they don't get any reflected sound ? Anyway I was pretty happy with the sound today. :D


It's more of a matter of playing a concert hall recording in a small room, rather than recording the performance outdoors :)

It's not that reflections per se are bad, in fact some reflections are positively good, i.e nice acoustics from concert halls. The difference, in comparison to regular domestic rooms, is that concert halls are BIG. This means the resonances are usually below the annoyance range, less than 20Hz, and the directional reflections are arriving at the ear more than 20ms after the direct sound, which means a lot less smear. 20ms or less and the ear perceives the reflection as part of the direct sound instead of ambience.

In terms of acoustic corrections, that's why asked if you had a dedicated listening room as piling acoustic treatment in a living room can be quite intrusive.

As you my have gathered this is a bit of a specialist subject for me, so forgive me if I suggest anything that might seem radical :)

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