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smeggypants wrote:
In terms of acoustic corrections, that's why asked if you had a dedicated listening room as piling acoustic treatment in a living room can be quite intrusive.

As you my have gathered this is a bit of a specialist subject for me, so forgive me if I suggest anything that might seem radical :)


No, of course you are right about room treatment really.

I will be doing some anyway (when I get round to it) - although the main purpose is to keep light out of the room for the cinema. I have some blackout curtains to go over the 8 foot wide, 6 foot tall, venetian blind in the back bay. Plus some heavy crushed velvet curtain in the 6 foot doorway through to the front lounge - and a curtain over the glass panelled door into the hall.

I'm thinking of using the room more for general living in the future, so the dining table at one side may be replaced by a more sound absorbing sofa.

The room has carpet and a large rug in front of the fire, as well as 5 inch wide shelving all around the room at a height of 7 foot. None of the walls are at 90 degrees to each other.

Image

My aim is to get the red line (uncorrected) as near to flat as possible. Reviewers who use top line room measurement equipment say that the Anthem kit does a very similar job to what they use.

The Anthem MRX system uses virtually the same correction software as the Anthem Statement D2v though the real time processor in the AVR has only about half the power - so if it has less work to do then it can do it better. :)

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Problem with using curtains ,even heavy one's, is that they only absorb the higher frequencies. And this can leave a room sounding dull and muddy.


Simlarly a sofa which is mostly empty won't really absorb that much. You could un staple the bottom and stuffi t full of rockwool which would help with bass ( resonance ) trapping.

this is quite a good diagram

Image

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I could probably do the sound absorbers on the side walls. The XTZs have ribbon tweeters which have wide horizontal spread but rapid cut-off vertically - this is easy to tell just by standing up from my listening/viewing armchair. Maybe I don't need the ceiling thing?

Dammit I can see me spending fortunes on expensive ugly sacks of stuff to hang everywhere. :rofl:

I didn't use my Anti-mode 8033 when I ran my tests yesterday - that proved to me what equalisation can do with my subwoofer. It tamed my sub and made it fit in with the overall sound. Moving it around to get rid of standing waves didn't work very well (though It can only go in a few places really). I will put that back in before my next tests - less for the MRX to do there.

Been too weary to do anything today. :(

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They don't have to be ugly. They can look really nice if made with nice wodden frames and covered in classy fabric :)


The ceiling absorber will make a HUGE difference. the onyl way to get rid of resonsnces standing waves is loads of absorption :) ( or go outside )

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Dammit, I somehow knew you'd say that. Hmmm, I'll see how things go after I install all the curtain thingies - as I need them anyway to watch in the daytime.

I can probably get the speakers much flatter simply by positioning and adjustment.

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diablo wrote:Dammit, I somehow knew you'd say that. Hmmm, I'll see how things go after I install all the curtain thingies - as I need them anyway to watch in the daytime.

I can probably get the speakers much flatter simply by positioning and adjustment.



The frequency response is only hald the battle, it's ths sound of the ambience in the room. i.e what carries in sounding after the speaker has finished that sound.

You have seen waterfall plots, which measure a room from a single impulse that contains all frequencies


for example

Image


They not only show freq response, but decay times. You can see the standing waves ( resonances decaying longer ) in green

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I sent an email to Anthem last night to see if their microphone was compatible with REW. Got this back -

Hello!
The ARC program is not compatible with the REW program.
ARC will provide a more accurate result than the REW program is capable of and was designed completely by us for use with the Anthem product.
Unfortunately, it’s not compatible with other EQ systems.
Cheers!
Ziso Mitchell


I tried it anyway but no luck. Also downloaded a demo version that measurement program that you recommended but it kept cocking up. :)

Maybe I need to buy yet another microphone (I have loads of em but none compatible with anything else!)

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ETF5 is what I use. Measurement mics can cost a lot of dosh B&K for eample. However Behringer make a flat response mic for about £50 ECM-8000. It needs phantom power though.

however there's no actual need to measure anything. Applying enoguh absorption to dissipate the standing waves and enough absorption in the right locations to absorb reflection points and the music will sound a billion times better :)

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I think I looked at that Behringer mike a while ago to use with REW, plus figured out the phanton power thing with another box (forgotten what it was now though).

The waterfall graphs would be interesting I think. As a very simple test I tried clapping my hands in the front lounge then in the back - much more reverb in the back as it isn't as stuffed with soft furnishings and curtains.

I put up the curtain across the big doorway and rolled down the projector screen. Made little difference to the graphs before and after, as you predicted.

Though my other changes have made the unadjusted curves a bit flatter -

Image

Image

The centre has the same drivers and crossover in the same size box as the left speaker. The peaks at 750-1.2k are presumably down to reflections - though it seems odd that the dips between 100 -200 Hz are in different places. I'll try swapping them over tomorrow and see if that makes a difference. :)

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100 - 200 hz anomalies would usually be standing waves

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Ok Diabs, finally done a Vinyl recording. signal Chain .......

Pioneer PL-400 turntable -> Mackie Big knob RIAA pre-amp -> Apogee Trak 2 24bit AD Conversion -> Cubase 5. UAD precision Multiband -> Apogee UV22 dithering - > 24bit wav file -> Lame encoded 320kbs wav file.

here ya go .....


http://www.smeggys.co.uk/Melba_Moore_-_Love's_Comin'_At_Ya_SMEGGY_RIP_114bpm_1982.mp3

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Not really my sort of music, bit funky - but the digitisation sounds pretty good to me, much better than my efforts of years ago. Thought I could hear some high frequency flaw at first then decided it was meant to be there. :)

Will all those links in the chain I'd imagine it would take ages to convert a whole LP, let alone a whole record library. :D I suppose some of the steps could be automated in some way.

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diablo wrote:Not really my sort of music, bit funky - but the digitisation sounds pretty good to me, much better than my efforts of years ago. Thought I could hear some high frequency flaw at first then decided it was meant to be there. :)


It is a bit harsh, but that's down to the production and the turntable.cartridge/needle. I couldn't tell the difference between playing the record and playing back the 24 bit file, but then the convertors weren't cheap

I've got some Santana and other more rocky stuff in the loft too, so I'll have a go with that at some point :thumb: :thumb:




Will all those links in the chain I'd imagine it would take ages to convert a whole LP, let alone a whole record library. :D I suppose some of the steps could be automated in some way.


Nah it wouldn't take long. Just record the two sides of the LP, and then put the Left and Right Locators around each track in turn and export as a file of bit depth of your choice, or straight to 320 mp3. Any EQ and other processing done to compensate for tone of the record would only have to be done once for each LP.

I have a Cubase template project set up already for this kind of thing as I download a lot of tunes from Youtube and most of them need EQing and multiband compressing to make them sound

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I reckon this thread has gotten waaaaay off topic. But they have a tendency to do that I suppose.

The original point I was making is shown by a couple of paras from the first page -

"Though I was listening to some music on my crappy car stereo earlier today and found it pleased me very much. Might have pleased me about 10% more on my several thousand pounds of hi-fi audio. :eek4: :rofl:

"My point was that I'm quite happy with the way it is now but I still have an irrational desire to 'improve' it anyway. :oops: Which is silly if you think about it. :):

That is, that I was as daft as a brush to improve something which I found good enough anyway, for surround sound anyway.

My new amp is better though. Watched a couple of films in the last few days and couldn't fault it.

Though I have thought about putting some absorbers at mirror points on the walls (which is difficult as odd shaped room) and also the ceiling (which is quite possible but will look odd) - for stereo stuff. Found a DIY version using rockwool or whatever it is, which I could make a suitable cover for.

The new amp is much more to my taste musically than the Onkyo or the Harman Kardon which both sounded too cold amd clinical in stereo.

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Without wishing to go off topic further the excellent Adam Curtis Documentaries The Century of The Self, deals with exactly the way corporates have exploited our irrational desires to sell us stuff..

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Hey Diabs, how's your listening room going?

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smeggypants wrote:Hey Diabs, how's your listening room going?


Odd you should mention it today - I just bought some brackets at lunchtime to make some wall speaker mountings for the front heights. Couldn't find any ready made wall-brackets suitable so have to use my poor woodworking ability to get them in the right place and angles.

Doubt if I'll do that today (needs more energy and enthusiasm than I have at the moment) but I will be moving my surrounds around this afternoon. They are really mounted too high but can't really go anywhere else - the tweeters in them are at the top at the moment so need to be swapped and turned upside down.

Plus the centre speaker is badly placed and will need moving around until the peaks are minimised, Then I'll have to recalibrate the system. So that's about three hours messing around. :D

And no, I haven't fitted a mirror-sited sound absorber on the ceiling yet. :)

Sounds pretty damn good though, even before my improvements.

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Dabs!! And everybody that's exhausted

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diablo wrote:
smeggypants wrote:Hey Diabs, how's your listening room going?


Odd you should mention it today - I just bought some brackets at lunchtime to make some wall speaker mountings for the front heights. Couldn't find any ready made wall-brackets suitable so have to use my poor woodworking ability to get them in the right place and angles.

Doubt if I'll do that today (needs more energy and enthusiasm than I have at the moment) but I will be moving my surrounds around this afternoon. They are really mounted too high but can't really go anywhere else - the tweeters in them are at the top at the moment so need to be swapped and turned upside down.

Plus the centre speaker is badly placed and will need moving around until the peaks are minimised, Then I'll have to recalibrate the system. So that's about three hours messing around. :D

And no, I haven't fitted a mirror-sited sound absorber on the ceiling yet. :)

Sounds pretty damn good though, even before my improvements.



It'll really impriove things when that goes up :). hang it below the ceiling ( 4" or more ) rather than touching the ceilng. There's no air vibrating at a surface boundary so nothing to absorb.

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smeggypants wrote:
It'll really impriove things when that goes up :). hang it below the ceiling ( 4" or more ) rather than touching the ceilng. There's no air vibrating at a surface boundary so nothing to absorb.


I could make it dual-purpose - put it on pulleys and fix some dowel underneath to dry clothes on. :rofl:

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